due to the evacuation two flights have been diverted to orlando. an air tran flight is being held on the ground in atlanta. those are all things we know. i can tell you also that they have not yet been able to search those packages. there is a bomb squad, though, on the scene. this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. also welcome to my studio audience. tonight shutdown showdown. on this first full day of the government shutdown i'll talk to jay carney, plus two congressmen right in the middle of things. i've also got a power panel of experts. bill crystal, grover norquist, carol ruff ready to answer your questions about the shutdown, obama care and what it could all cost you. join the conversation. we've got a man never afraid to

express his opinions. he's flown here to explode with fury, jesse ventura on the shutdown, obama care and why he's sure you don't know the real story of the assassination of the president kennedy. i want to begin with the shutdown showdown between president obama and house speaker john boehner. the house failing to pass bills intended to fund government programs one by one in what the white house calls piecemeal fashion. the president had promised vetoes. the question for jay carney, what will it take for washington to now make a deal. jay carney, welcome to the show. tell me where we are with all of this. is it inevitable that you will have to sit down, your man, the president, and speaker boehner and just thrash out a deal? >> well, piers, what is inevitable is that congress has the responsibility to fund the government, to pass bills that keep the government open. and congress has the responsibility to pass a bill to raise the debt ceiling so that the united states does not for the first time in its history

default on its obligations. you know, the president's position is clear. he has been all year and continues to be eager and willing to sit down with lawmakers of both parties to work out a longer and broader budget compromise. it funds our priorities, invests in our future and reduces our deficit, continuing the work that he's done since he took office in reducing the deficit by more than half. but what he won't do is negotiate under threat of shutdown or threat of default. you know, the republicans are engaging in a practice here that's bad for the economy, bad for the middle class, and they're doing it all because they want to, you know, get this political victory of undermining or defunding or dismantling obama care, something they have failed to do legislatively, they failed to do through the supreme court, they failed to do when we had a national election last november.

you know, obama care, the affordable care act is the law. it's providing benefits to millions of americans. it's providing benefits to millions of americans. as you know today, a new phase opened where millions more will get those benefits. >> i'm not really disputing anything you said so i'm kind of on your side of this, but, and it's a big but, the government is shut down so at some point there has to be a form of negotiation, whatever form that takes. when i spoke to president bill clinton last week and former speaker newt gingrich, they both said when they went through the last shutdown, they talked every single day, wrestling with all the complexities of this kind of situation to try to get to a point of agreement. why is that not happening between the president and john boehner? >> well, first of all, as the president said he would, he spoke with the speaker of the house and said he would continue to have conversations with leaders in congress in the days ahead.

what is fundamentally different about 1995 and 2013, and i remember because i was in this room covering it as a reporter, is that the republicans then, whether you agreed with or didn't agree with their strategy and whether or not it ended up hurting them politically, you know, had a coherence what they were arguing. they wanted to force the president, then bill clinton, to reduce spending more. so what they were arguing about went to the heart of what funding the government is about, budget priorities. what we see now is republicans, they have abandoned their insistence that we deal with our budget issues. when the president put on the table a budget that reduces the deficit and addresses entitlement reforms, they ignored that and are now making this about getting a political scalp which is defunding or dismantling or disrupting the implementation of the affordable care act. the president won't do that. >> the speaker, though, if he can't get any concession on the defunding of any part of obama care or any change at all to appease the tea party renegades

who are driving all of this, his position becomes untenable. does that suit the white house, that speaker boehner's position reaches that place? >> no. we are agnostic when it comes to how republicans pick their leaders in congress. the president actually has a good relationship with and likes and enjoys john boehner's company. but the fact is this can't be about his job security. is that what the message is to the american people, sorry, the government is shut down. sorry, we may default because of internal politics and the future of the speaker? that can't be what it's about. honestly as the president said the other day in an interview, he believes that if the speaker of the house did the right thing and put a clean bill on the floor that had already passed the senate and did it on the house, it would get a majority of members of the house of representatives, including republicans who day by day are now saying this is what they want, and john boehner would be strengthened by it. >> jay, you're a smart guy.

as you just said, you've been in the reporter's shoes covering this very eventuality back in the mid-'90s. how does this play out? how does this end? >> well, first of all, i'd say we're making no demands. the president has asked for nothing in return for congress funding the government or in signing the bill for funding the government or in return for signing the bill that would raise the debt ceiling. the only party to these discussions that has attached political demands or any kind of demands are the republicans. so the president is not asking for anything. and, you know, it's up to the leaders of the republican party in the end to make a decision to adopt a different strategy that reopens the government and allows them to raise the debt ceiling responsibly and then we can continue to debate and discuss and even fight over our priorities, but not holding the american people hostage or holding the economy hostage. >> jay carney, good to talk to you. thank you very much.

>> piers, thank you. the president says he's not making demands but he definitely has some tough talk for republicans in his rose garden remarks. listen to this. >> they have shut down the government over an ideological crusade to deny affordable health insurance to millions of americans. in other words, they demanded ransom just for doing their job. >> strong words. joining me now is congressman james lankford, chairman of the house republican policy committee. welcome to you, congressman. he's got a point, hasn't he, the president? obama care is law. he's been re-elected on the basis of obama care being the main pillar of his first tenure. what is the big problem here? why can't republicans just see sense, realize it's law and move on? >> sure, it's the same reason that we were elected as well. as a lot of folks talk the president was elected, we were elected to represent our constituents. our constituents are asking legitimate questions. you can pull up other speeches from the president where he said i'm willing to talk about

changes and it's not perfect and there are some issues with it but then he never finishes out and says here's what those would be. we're recommending a couple of those. we've set in front of the president, here are two issues that are pretty simple. one is members of congress and the white house are exempted from the rules of obama care. we don't think that's right. if the law is so great for the american people, it should also go to the white house and the congress. the second thing is there are going to be issues. people are going to make mistake in this very first year of obama care and we don't want them to get penalties because they made mistakes, because they chose not to get in it. all these questions are coming up. we want to say they should be exempted. the same thing he's given to businesses. we don't think it's all that irrational. >> congressman, all these things are just the normal run-of-the-mill negotiation stuff over things like obama care. they shouldn't shut down the government. that's the point. congress, according to the latest cnn/orc poll, how is congress handles its job. approve 10%, disapprove 87%. this is going to be quite shocking, i hope, to you.

brussel sprouts, root canals, colonoscopies and head lice all currently have higher approval ratings than the united states congress. >> i'm not surprised. i'm not surprised. i have to tell you -- >> you're not surprised that head lice, colonoscopies have higher ratings than you? >> four years ago, i was just a normal american citizen in my area in oklahoma city. and many people came to me and said people like you and like being around you. you're doing good work here, why would you want to run for congress? as soon as you're elected, you're the problem. one day you're a normal citizen and the next day you're you people causing the problems and the issues. when someone says what do you think about congress. you think about the opposing problem. republicans are asked what do you think about congress and they think about some democrat they don't like. and you just default to that as human nature. people are frustrated. they have to think about congress. our proposal that we put out last time we think is pretty reasonable. we just said --

>> the problem is, though, congressman, very, very few people in the western world agree with you that it's reasonable. let's go to a question co- >> let's ask and see if you should negotiate face to face because the last proposal we put out is should the house and senate sit down and negotiate. get an answer to that because that's the last thing we put on the table and the senate said no. >> let me go a question from the audience. he has a question specifically for you. >> i have a question regarding congress' pay. do you think it's fair that congress is going to continue to get paid while more than 800,000 government employees are furloughed? >> okay. that's a great question. there are about 17 to 20 or so, depending on how you count it, different government shutdowns that happened in the last 30 years. every single time whether it was during the reagan administration and tip o'neil shut down the government or the clinton administration and newt gingrich or now, every one of those, federal employees were paid back. all of them were made whole. i would much assume that would

happen as well. >> how much are you being paid for this week, congressman? >> i don't break it down. >> let me help you. let me help you. >> okay. you broke it down, good for you. >> you are paid $3,346 a week. the average worker is paid $829. some of them, we're going to come to them after the break, will explain to you why they feel so frustrated being furloughed. but there's a serious point here. why should the very people who have caused the shutdown continue to be paid when the victims of the shutdown are not being paid? >> no, i would assume we're not. we could do the same thing with your salary. we could break it down a week at a time and see how that balances out to the average american. every american makes a different amount. we get that in that sense. members in the senate are paid every two weeks, members of the house of representatives are paid every month. i'm sending a letter in that my pay would be held just as every other citizen affected by this. we're working through the

process to get people rolled out of it. we had three different bills today to try to roll people out of it and solve some of the problems on this. where we can find common ground, we should keep moving. we believe when we're at an impasse, since the 1700s, we always go back to the same thing. the house and the senate both appoint negotiators, negotiate it and do that. we've appointed our negotiators. we'd love to have that with the senate so we can sit down in a room and solve this. >> congressman lank ford, thank you very much. congressman chris van hollen is the ranking democrat in the house budget committee. so you heard it all there. apparently it's all your fault, congressman. >> there would be one way to quickly settle this issue. as jay carney mentioned, the house of representatives has in its possession right now a clean cr, meaning a bill that would keep the government operating while we then could negotiate on other issues. the speaker of the house has refused to allow a vote on that issue.

if he wants to vote against it, that's his prerogative, but i think the american people deserve an up or down vote in the people's house. and just today on the floor of the house, we tried again, simply to bring that bill up for a vote because i'm absolutely confident that if you take democrats and republicans together, there are a majority in the people's house to fund the clean bill. so why wouldn't you do it? and the answer is that right now the speaker is cow-towing to the very far sort of reckless part of his party, the tea party part of the house, and he's listening to them and refusing to allow the full house to vote on that resolution. we could have it on the president's desk tonight and the lights would go back on in the federal government. >> here's my theory. john boehner has lost control of the tea party element of the republican side. but on the democrat side, i don't think president obama is a very good negotiator, because as bill clinton and newt gingrich

both told me, when they went through this before, they spoke every single day. the fact the president really has barely talked to john boehner at all, as he tends not to in these situations, that cannot be in america's national interests, because this only gets solved when eventually they talk to each other, right? >> that's right. piers, i'm glad you asked that and i encourage everybody to go back and look at the beginning of this year when speaker boehner's folks said that he did not want to have any more negotiations with the president of the united states. he wanted to go through what we call the regular order in the house, where the house passes bills and the senate passes bills. so what happened is the house passed a budget and the senate passed a budget and the next step in the process is for you to have a negotiation on the budget. speaker boehner refused to appoint negotiators on the budget, just like in the senate ted cruz and the tea party senators, mike lee, blocked harry reid from appointing budget negotiators so they couldn't have that budget negotiation.

and as a result what they decided to do instead was drive the country to the edge of this cliff and they thought they could get, by doing that, these demands that they placed on the president which you can never get in a normal negotiation. could get, by doing that, these demands that they placed on the president which you can never get in a normal negotiation. >> here's the situation. we are where we are. >> yes, we are. >> that has failed, the government has shut down. at some stage there has to be negotiation and settlement. what is it likely to be? >> well, two things. first of all, we should pass right now the bill that's in the house. and again, let's just have a vote on the bill. i mean i think everyone, republicans and democrats should agree that the people's house should be able to have a vote on the bill. i believe that would go straight to the president's desk and have the government functioning again. so we should do that. then we should sit down and work on the budget, which as i've

said we've tried to do for many, many months. back in april i introduced a resolution calling upon the speaker to appoint budget negotiators. we had that voted down by republican colleagues on three occasions. so the next step is open the government, stop taking hostages, don't drive the government to the edge, but let's begin today on budget negotiations so that we end this silliness of six-week continuing resolution government shutdowns, threat we're not going to pay our bills, that kind of thing. >> congressman, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you, piers. when we come back, some of the real americans suffering real effects from the shutdown. and i'll ask my power panel what it will take to get a solution that everyone can basically live with.

this is shutdown showdown on piers morgan, my town hall. joining me bill crystal, the editor of the weekly standard, grover norquist, and carol roth,

cnbc contributor and best-selling author. haley is a lawyer being furloughed because of the shutdown. she's here with her husband, alexander. tell me what has happened to you? >> yes, i went into work this morning and received my furlough notice so now i am unable to work for a indefinite period. >> let me go straight to you, bill crystal, because you were furious the way i asked the congressman about his salary. at least he's getting a damn salary, what about haly? >> you acted all indignant that he was getting a salary. jay carney is getting a salary and the democratic congressman is getting a salary. >> they're all getting salaries. >> you should have asked -- >> why should they get salaries and this very hard-working young lady be sent home on the spur of a moment with a piece of paper and has no money coming into her

family? >> some of the congressmen, a friend of mine, the congressman from arkansas said he was giving up his salary for this period. what do you mean, what is your position? >> if they -- the house republicans passed the military pay act to make sure the military were paid. and i think uniformed officers are paid and those in support of people in uniform. >> but 800,000 people aren't be paid. >> right, they aren't, that's right. there's a government shutdown. why is there a government shutdown? because the democratic senate and president obama will not accept two propositions, that the individual mandate should be delayed for a year even though the exchanges have opened in total chaos today and the second one, the congressmen should abide by the same rules as everyone else who goes to the exchanges. those are such unreasonable demands that the president can't negotiate with the speaker? jay carney can't make an argument for those pieces of legislation? >> you begin with a nonstarter. >> why is it a nonstarter? because it's a law, like piers said.

didn't the president suspend the employer mandate and change other parts of the law? shouldn't congress have the right to say something? >> the president has been open to negotiating this law for the last year. >> the house republicans passed -- the house republicans passed -- the house republicans suspended the individual mandate. they got 22 democratic votes in the house. senator reid hasn't taken it up. president obama said he would veto it. he said he opened the exchanges today and they worked just great. >> he simply won't do it with a gun to his head. to make the statement the exchanges were a mess, you're overstating the calamity. and this is a major piece of legislation, the motor significant in 50 years. >> when was it passed, i forgot? three years ago and president obama is the top of this administration and they had this chaos that they had today? doesn't that tell you something? >> i don't concede it was chaos. >> time-out, time-out, time-out. let me wrestle back control of this control. >> it's going to be a little more messy when everybody has access to health care. >> let's hold fire for one

second. i want to bring in a woman and try to calm things down. carol roth. >> i want to bring some common sense to this conversation. first of all, i want to thank haley for her service. we have to face the real reason why we are in a government shutdown. it is not because of obama care or not obama care, it's because the government has run out of money. we are the wealthiest nation in the world. the u.s. government employs more people than anyone. the fact that we continually run out of money and are continually in shutdown situations is absolutely ludicrous and shows our financial mismanagement. if we have bills -- if we have bills -- piers, if we had bills that attacked funding to the budget that they passed, we would never be in this situation. >> carol, the obvious answer to your crowd-pleasing point is that, of course, the shutdown doesn't help the national financial situation.

it makes it massively worse. and this is the problem, is it's so self-defeating. none of these politicians are acting in the interests of the american people. >> and that is exactly the problem. that thing that really makes me angry and should make the american public angry, this is political theater. this is not about solving the inherent problem, the flaws in our system. that is the end of the issue, piers. we need to hold our politicians to a better standard because we deserve better as americans. >> we have an unprecedented second round of applause with carol roth. i don't think it's ever happened on this show before. let me go to somebody who never gets applauded, grover norquist. grover, what is your take in all this? you're a big boy. you've been around the block on these things a few times. how do we get through this impasse at the moment and who really is most to blame? >> well, the reason that we're trying to get everything done right now is that obama, although he says he's willing to negotiate all the time, doesn't even sit down with republicans until, as in 2011 they had the

debt ceiling that they ran up against. then and only then did he sit down and discuss anything at all. then we've gone up until now with no negotiations, no discussions. the democrats for years in the senate didn't even bother to pass budgets year after year. so this gets pushed into this short time period. what the president is doing now, i think, is he's overplayed his hand, as he did with the sequester when he wouldn't let the kids have easter egg hunt at the white house because he didn't have any money. >> what do you mean he's overplayed his hand, grover? as john mccain told me yesterday, we've seen this movie play out before. and the people that are going to get blamed are the republicans who look like they're divided, they don't have a consensus in their own party and they will be blamed. so obama in the end will win. >> when the republicans -- >> you're trying to blame them but that doesn't mean they will be blamed. >> the polls are blaming them. >> they're being blamed in the polls. >> let's see what happens over the next two weeks. >> grover, i did ask you the

question. >> up against clinton, the republicans did poorly. why? clinton approved a law which said, okay, we're going to take d.c. off the table. what the democrats and obama are opposing now. the d.c. funding. he approved and allowed allowing the veterans affairs to move through so that was not being shut down. this president wants to shut down the veterans affairs. this president won't allow d.c. to function. in the neighborhoods on capitol hill, they're putting up fences around the parks like they did to the guys in wheelchairs, the world war ii vets, not letting them into the world war ii monument. that's the memory everyone has. that's a cheap, really awful thing that the president and his people did. that's an open park. that's not something that has locks on it. they put locks around a turtle park on capitol hill and wouldn't let kids in today. >> if we went back in time and

examined what happened with all the republican-induced shutdowns over the years, you're telling me that none of these things would have happened in past times, grover? >> well, okay, when you go back, carter had five shutdowns with only democrats in the house and senate and they lasted ten days each, 58 days total under carter. he didn't these things. do you remember him shutting down mt. rushmore and stuff like that? no, because he was trying to make things work, not trying to make political points against the american people. and with reagan, they lasted one, two and three days, okay. there were seven or eight of them, they lasted a day or two, no more than three. we now have a president, he pulled this same stunt with the sequester, claiming he didn't have enough money to do an easter egg hunt. they closed down the white house tours. the capitol does tours, the white house doesn't do tours. same sequester in both cases. he's just being petty and mean and trying to punish the american people for his spending too much money. >> that's a bizarre analysis, grover.

the republican party -- >> sorry it's true. >> holds the government hostage, shuts it down and you're saying the president is being petty and mean by how he responds. >> all the president has to do is sign the legislation -- >> republicans have been unwilling -- unwilling to compromise, unwilling to meet. 18 times they had the opportunity the last year and a half to talk about budgets. now suddenly 24 hours ago they want to talk budgets. the democratic party has been open to talking about health care for the last three years. the republicans have done nothing but attempt to repeal it wholesale. they want to make these dramatic demonstrations in congress. >> time-out with a short break. i'm liking the way this has going. bill, you haven't exploded for at least three minutes so lock yourself up and we'll be back after the break.

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this is "piers morgan live." town hall of the let's go to our audience for a question from miranda. >> hi. my name is miranda and i'm wondering in light of ted cruz's recent comments on obama care, what do you see as the implications for the upcoming 2013 gubernatorial elections and the face of the gop? >> yeah, i mean this is an interesting point, isn't it, bill? ted cruz has made his march. he's the male version of sarah palin, one of the better comparisons which he may take as a compliment, many wouldn't. but in terms of his ability to direct the republican party

right now, he's the guy in the saddle, isn't he? >> well, but chris christie will get re-elected governor of new jersey and he's not taking orders from ted cruz. i think republicans have a very promising field for 2016 with a lot of young senators, governors, congressmen like paul ryan and the democrats will nominate a fine woman who's been around quite a long time and accomplished nothing as secretary of state under president obama. so i like republican odds in 2014 and 2016. >> 2014 is going to be a tough year for republicans. right now these negotiations are frustrating the american people and it's going to make tea party republicans get trounce in 2014, i guarantee you. now, there will be some moderates who come back in. some moderates will return to the house for the gop. i think it will be a tough year for them. the president has -- if i were the president, i would take on more of this so democrats aren't

also hit on this in 2014. but republicans will have a tough 2014. >> carol roth, the reputation of america on the global stage, because america still remains the great superpower but that's not going to last many more decades. we know that. other emerging superpowers are coming. and the rest of the world is looking at this, frankly pretty aghast at what they're seeing. the statue of liberty closed, you know. what is going on in america is the feeling back in britain or australia, wherever it may be. what about america incorporated and how it moves forward and restores its credibility and its reputation? >> well, i think, first of all, piers, the place where it needs to restore its reputation most importantly is in the eyes of the american people. and we have these government official its that we have elected to represent us and for some reason they think that we work for them instead of vice versa. so as important as the national stage is, i'm more concerned, first and foremost, about how they are treating the american people, the hard-working people on main street. that being said, the big issue here doesn't matter if we pass a budget or a continuing resolution that we are broke and we will have to borrow for any budget that is passed.

if we don't raise that debt ceiling, well, then you know what ends up happening is we end up in a situation where we could potentially default on our debt and that becomes a big problem on the world stage because they are the ones that are currently funding us. >> final point to you, grover, very brief with this. what happened to ronald reagan's 11th amendment, thou shall not speak ill of any fellow republican? >> well, he invented that when he was running ahead as the favorite. it was not something he believed in strongly when he was challenging the sitting president for it. to the question of 2014, though, what the democrats have to keep in mind is obama was willing to compromise in 2011 because he was up for election. he agreed to cut $2.5 trillion in spending that the republicans insisted on, we got the sequester. fast forward, he's passed his election. but there are a number, six, seven democrats up for the

senate who have just cast votes just recently not to delay the individual mandate, even though obama has given delays to the big insurance companies, big businesses and big labor unions. not to have equity between government employees who work for congress and you and me and not to get rid of the stupid tax that obama care has that makes medical devices more expensive. the democrats are now going to turn around and vote not to keep the veterans affairs open, not to keep the national parks open and not to keep the d.c. open. they're accumulating votes that are going to cost them senate seats and obama is not looking out after their interests. he's already passed his election. >> all right. well, i'm glad i didn't ask you for the long-winded response. grover, it's always good to see you. bill, grover, carol, a lively panel tonight. give grover a round of applause. he doesn't get one. coming next, some straight talk on the shutdown from jesse ventura. he's flown in to be with me live and unleashed after the break.

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congress and the white house battle over the shutdown, many americans are getting more an more frustrated. they're angry and so is my next guest, the former minnesota governor, jesse ventura, the author of a new book of the "63 reasons to believe that it was conspiracy to assassinate jfk." welcome to you, jesse. >> thanks, piers. >> so how does the government of the world's greatest superpower really shut down or is this just some vast conspiracy? >> well, you know, they're shut down and i guess my question would be since the government shut down, that should mean we shouldn't have to pay any taxes, right? yet it's not going to work that way, is it? even though they're not working, we're still going to be paying? i think it's time for a revolt

in this country. i've been advocating a revolution for years now. revolutions don't have to be violent, but we need one, and i would tell everybody here, vote them all out of office and, wait, don't vote in a new democrat or republican. vote for anyone but democrats and republicans. >> let's take a look around this room here. you weren't hand picked for any political persuasion, but how many people here are republicans. just a few hands. how many are democrats. a few more hands. how many are neither republican nor democrats? so you are the jesse ventura future of america. >> we are the majority. we are the majority. >> how much of that do you think -- this is just a random section of people to watch the show but how much of this is just down to general dissatisfaction with the american political system? >> well, it's because the democrats and republicans have created this corrupt system and they have been in charge now for 150 years. they have created a system that's based completely on the concept of bribery. if you pay them and bribe them, you get audience with them. if you don't, you're out the door.

and so we need to get away from this concept of bribery. and that's why i'm considering making a run, but i need a couple of things have to happen first. but i would run on this, ladies and gentlemen. my simple campaign would be this. i would give you the opportunity to elect the first president of the united states that does not belong to any political party since george washington. he is our only president that belonged to no political party, and i think it's high time we elect someone that does not belong to these two gangs, because it's the gangs that dictate what's going on. this is all gang warfare here. this is gang warfare. the gangs put themselves first. the gang first, the gang's money first and we, the country, become second or third. we're actually third in line. >> some people say no, no, no, jesse is not like that and yet their approval ratings plummet each time i talk to you and you

end up thinking, yeah, they are a bunch of gangs. overpaid, underworked children. >> let's look at it this way. the big thing is health care, right? in my last book i showed you all these elected officials have four options to choose from of health care. they won't give us one. yet they get four to choose from. now the government is shut down. are they getting paid? of course they are. >> what do you think of obama care? >> do what now? >> what do you think of obama care? >> i don't think anything of it because my belief is quite simple. we in the united states of america should have a policy that anyone who gets sick should be able to go to the doctor. now how they want to do it is up to them. but if we get out of all these damn wars, we'd have more money to pay for health care than we could shake a stick at. but instead it's go to war, go to war, go to war. i love the reaction of the

american people on the syria deal. the calls were 300 to 1 opposing any more war. finally, you're all waking up. finally you're waking up that we've been at perennial war for 60 years. enough of this! enough of this war crap. >> well, enough of this particular segment, but you're coming back after the break. >> and let's talk about my book. >> more jesse ventura after the break.

back now with my special guest jesse ventura. jesse, you hit all the right populist notes with this stuff. let's get real for a moment. is it feasible in our lifetime that you could have a candidate running for president who was successful who was not a member of the republican or democratic party? >> i did it. i won the governorship in minnesota and was not a member of the democrat or the republican. >> could you do it on a presidential level? >> sure. if i'm allowed in the debates. but you notice those two parties

control the debates. they won't let anyone else in them. if i can debate them, piers, i can beat them. >> somebody tweeted me earlier saying nobody who wears tie-dyed shirts could ever be president of the united states. what is your response? >> my response would be then i guess a real person shouldn't be president. because i'm a real person. do you know when i ran for governor i never used a prepared speech? >> is that true? >> yes. because my belief is if you tell the truth you don't have to have a good memory. [ cheers and applause ] >> you've written a new book. it's called "they killed our president" 63 reasons to believe there was a conspiracy to assassinate jfk. what is new about your book? >> there's always new information coming out. there's always more and more -- that's what makes it so intriguing to study it. that's what to me makes studying the kennedy assassination more interesting than say reading a vince flynn book or tom clancy book. those are all fiction this.

really happened. >> so who killed kennedy, do you think? >> you can't answer that question because it's been 50 years and there's no way to say specifically who. i can tell you this -- >> let me tell you what i think. >> it wasn't lee harvey oswald. >> i think it was. i interviewed a guy called clint hill who was the bodyguard in you see footage of the cavalcade. he jumps on the back. he was actually jackie kennedy bodyguard. >> why weren't secret service on the the bumper that day? they were removed. >> that's not what he told me. >> the secret service says what? they took him off the bumper. why did they change for dallas only the way the motorcycles were lined up? they put four of them way in front and the others all behind. they didn't go in the standard wedge which was used in the two previous days before? but in dallas that changed. they got them out of the way to give a clear shooting lane.

>> let me finish my point. clint hill who was there and on the back of that limo -- >> he wasn't on the back of it. >> he jumped on the back of it. >> from the car way behind and it took him how long to get there. >> he believed lee harvey oswald acted alone. why do you know more than he does? >> the fact there's a whole lot of information. it's so obvious when you read this book. i'll let you people be the judge. read the book. it's so obvious. >> who do you think did it? >> the secret service protected kennedy more after death than they did when he was alive. because they illegally took body out of texas, autopsy by law should have gone there. lyndon johnson, the car was a crime scene. everybody knows tape goes around a crime scene until forensic gets through with it. monday morning that car was in michigan being refurbished. already moved, no one was allowed to seat car. >> jesse, who do you think killed jfk? >> there's multiple choices.

>> give me one. >> kennedy made a tremendous amount of enemies. the military industrial complex hated him because he wouldn't go to war in cuba. he was already with drawing troops from vietnam. there would have been no vietnam war. him and krushchev were back channel communicating and both planned on ending the cold war by '65. krushchev was taken out of power. they were doing it via pope john and the vatican. we have the cold war for 20 years. >> what does your brain tell you -- >> also kennedy was going to take away the oil depletion allowance which what is all oil guys use to make big money so that they can make 30 million a year and pay no taxes. so he had big oil mad at him, he had the military industrial complex mad at him, plus he was doing the first move towards human rights in this country, which the south hated him for. so you've got multiple choices of many --

>> you've written a book about it. what do you think is the most likely theory? >> here's the deal. there were two conspiracies that took place. the first conspiracy was the actual one to murder the president. the second conspiracy was to cover it up. after it happened. both of those took place. now, you have separate players on both sides of that. well, look at it this way. read the opening, the capsenback memo we open the book with. this is from the acting attorney general. he states "monday morning we must convince the people oswald acted alone, that he had no one with him, and that if he went to trial he'd be convicted." this is monday morning before they've looked at one shred of evidence. the acting attorney general of the united states sends this memo to the new president. and that's exactly what he says, it's exactly -- and they said, we need to form a commission to rubber-stamp all this so that we

don't have any type of congressional or other investigations. woe be that we would have a real investigation". >> jesse, you're a straight talker. i've now asked you multiple times. >> i can't tell you. >> i've given you my theory pretty commonly held one. lee harvey oswald. >> he couldn't make the shots. >> i cited my source one of the secret service details actually went on the car and he said he acted alone. you've got 30 second left to try to give me a straight answer to a simple question. >> i can't tell you who did it. i wasn't there. and it's unfair to ask a question. you think you've won the argument simply because i can't name who did it? >> yes, do i. okay. james files was the shooter on the grassy knoll. you have the confession of e. howard hunt on my tv show, yet mainstream media said not a word about it. hunt confessed. lbj knew. he went right down the chain of command. it was called the big event. his death bed confession to his son. >> you've only given me six reasons so far.

there are 63 reasons to believe in this book "a conspiracy to assassinate jfk." as always, jesse, you are a compelling talker when it comes to these things. i don't know how much i believe but i love the way you talk. >> read the book. >> it's a great talking point. >> great to see you. jesse ventura. the book is out now. we'll be right back.

pass the budget and the government shutdown. pay your bills, prevent an economic shutdown. don't washg don't wait. don't delay. >> my goodness, they won't even shut down and have a discussion about this. the government shut down in a second day, workers furloughed. an agreement in washington, nowhere in sight. >> a wolf who thinks they can pull the wool over the eyes of the international community.